The EU Referendum.

[PetBazaar]

https://www.facebook.com/voteleave/v...7739189403009/

recon boris n co resoundingly won that debate

i didnt watchit due to that the fact that cows on nicola watzagob hate that cow

mind u i like scottish angus steak

What a curious commentary.

Are you really saying that you reckon the "out team" won a debate that you didn't actually see, basing your decision on hightlights shown by a Facebook group that supports the "out team"?

I mean, really?

And what makes "nicola watzagob" a cow? Is it that she disagrees with your position, or do you just think all women are cows?

[olivia8143]

What a curious commentary.

Are you really saying that you reckon the "out team" won a debate that you didn't actually see, basing your decision on hightlights shown by a Facebook group that supports the "out team"?

I mean, really?

And what makes "nicola watzagob" a cow? Is it that she disagrees with your position, or do you just think all women are cows?

Yes, as I mentioned earlier, an excellent example of the Dunning-Kruger effect (unskilled and unaware of it). In simple words it's people who are too stupid to know how stupid they are. http://www.jerwood-no.org.uk/pdf/Dunning%20Kruger.pdf
The concluding remarks of the paper could apply to many participants of this thread.

[tony41]

Who is nicola watzagob?

[astral276]

Just tried to watch my very first TV discussions on Brexit. One on Sky News with two newspaper editors and one on BBC News with Michael Heseltine. Had to switch both off as both were just shouting each other down. Kevin Maguire of the Daily Mirror was the worst. If this is the level of debate across the board then I'm glad I have avoided them before.

Sad to see DC getting so desperate that he has wheeled out that idiot Gordon Brown (the liar that won him the last referendum) again.

[westlondoncarparts]

I have just seen the LEAVE campaign broadcast on BBC1. It lied about the amount of money that the UK sends to the EU. It lied in giving the impression that Turkey is about to join the EU imminently. It lied in giving the impression that the Euro is about to collapse and that the UK will have to contribute money to bail it out. This comes on top of the falsehoods that UKIP that have spread regularly about the EU in recent years. The other side are not much better. Last week we had the Northern Ireland Peace Process going to collapse in the case of Brexit and this week we have had the end of western political civilization as we know it from Donald Tusk should the UK leave the EU. The EU Referendum is a serious matter and it is most important that the British people are able to make the right choice for the right reasons. They can only make informed decisions when dealing with truthful information. Having to put up with such falsehoods that we are getting is an affront to common decency. Whatever the result of the Referendum, one thing that the ordinary members of the electorate should press for post Referendum is for there to be legislation under the criminal law to deal with such lies from campaigners and politicians. We have immense personal freedoms in our kind of democracy which these people continually abuse. They are anti-social and anti-democratic.

[theElench]

IMO the people of the UK have been lied to since before we even joined the EEC. The establishment in the UK has known from day one where the EEC was headed but just after WW2 with an empire, having been on the winning side and having a strong democracy the British electorate would have demanded that the EEC institutions reflected our way of doing things. Not at all what was required.

We were kept out untill the 70s when we were demoralised, economicaly weaker and the establishment had had time to weaken our democracy, then we were ripe to accept that the stronger EU was the answer to our problems. The institutions were strong enough to resist democratic pressure and we had to accept them to get in at all.

The strength of democracy is by definition a strong grass roots involvement in the political process. In the UK central govt. has progressively dismantled local govt. Centralising decision making and taking away local govt.s ability to raise its own taxes, still taking our money but removing our democratic control over how its spent. It is now not much more than an agency of Whitehall.

Local elections have become a farce with councils elected by smaller numbers of voters. The rest are said to be apathetic. I don't think they are, they just see the elections as the waste of time that they are. The coucillors, having no strong mandate to do anything are willing to be led by the beurocracy.

So we already have the EU model in full working order. The beurocrats make decisions and policy, our representatives rubber stamp the decisions and nothing of any importance is ever put to the electorate. As younger people become voters used to this reversal of roles they are becoming more compliant with how the EU wants Europe to be run. If Cameron hadn't promised a referendum, thinking that he wouldn't get a majority and have to forfill his promise, it would never have happened. It would have quietly been forgotten about as the electorates engagement in politics shrinks and Brussels takes over.

Local politicians are mostly nonentities without any real political principles, only too ready to switch party labels to hang on to their pay cheque (I live in Thanet where "UKIP" took control at the last election). Quite a few of these councillors have been on the council for years under other banners but quickly changed sides when it became clear that UKIP had popular support.

National politicians are going the same way. I listen to the radio alot, they sound the same, spout the same half truths and without the TV pictures it's very difficult to work out who's speaking or what party they're from.

I'll definitely be voting leave. If we don't leave now we never will and hundreds of years of working towards democracy will end. The EU will become another beurocratic state and if history teaches us anything it's that unelected govts run by a small elite become more authoritarian and greedy. I don't look forward to living in a society where my role (or my childrens) is to shut up, pay up and do what I'm told.

[MPS16]

....I'll definitely be voting leave. If we don't leave now we never will and hundreds of years of working towards democracy will end. The EU will become another beurocratic state and if history teaches us anything it's that unelected govts run by a small elite become more authoritarian and greedy. I don't look forward to living in a society where my role (or my childrens) is to shut up, pay up and do what I'm told.

"I simply do not have the right to shrug my shoulders and think about something else. What he is saying, thousands and hundreds of thousands are saying and thinking - not throughout Great Britain, perhaps, but in the areas that are already undergoing the total transformation to which there is no parallel in a thousand years of English history."

Thanet will vote for Brexit.

[astral276]

Who is nicola watzagob?

I believe Nicola Sturgeon was being referenced. Hard to tell if she has a big gob though as she always looks like she is sucking a lemon. She always reminds me of the joke about the 'Wide Mouthed Frog'.

Related: Is there a reason that married female politicians use their maiden names? Thinking of the likes of Sturgeon (m: Peter Murrell) and Yvette Cooper (m: Ed Balls). Is it to try and hide how many in a family have their snouts in the trough?

[tony41]

Related: Is there a reason that married female politicians use their maiden names? Thinking of the likes of Sturgeon (m: Peter Murrell) and Yvette Cooper (m: Ed Balls). Is it to try and hide how many in a family have their snouts in the trough?

It is even worse when non politician wives use their maiden names to comment about their husbands. For example, Sarah Vine, journalist, is married to Michael Gove. She doesn't mention this when she is writing her column. Perhaps because it conveys an false impression of impartiality.

[astral276]

It is even worse...

I would say it's the same. They should have to declare their connection. Particularly if that connection has any possibility of influencing their work.